If you actually read his argument, he has some good points, and he's not just ranting. Your entire argument is based off of the fact that these suggestions never work. So what? We can make these types of suggestions as many times as we like, all you have to do is ignore them. Plus, you mention, and I quote, "players will just use that arena and once builders find out they will just use that one too. Then you will just try to covertly change it all to non-kits or at least try too." First off, this further increases the integrity of my argument that you didn't bother to actually read the entire argument. Also, there are only 24 spots in an arena, and doing it in a less popular/large arena (Such as Arena 1) the games would be longer, since the arena is large and people won't get decimated by kits immediately.

You also say "if u want something to change be the change..." Please, tell me, how that kuke can "Be the change" when he doesn't control how SG works? Just as a side note: If you want to make a good argument, you might not want to spell like a first grader.

 

-Ok got my comp sorry if my previous messages were choppy (grammar, spelling, and such)-

If u actually read (or understood) any of our responses I said he had viable points He made two good points when he said people rage quit and kits are really over powered. Those are both true but I expressed clear counters such as donations help the server and kits are supposed to give an advantage that's their basic function. Hes doing the right thing in my opinion trying to promote equality, however he's not adressing points fully and clearly as he can be which leaves him open to arguments. This is a shame because I personally agree kits should be nerfed. He just needs a better approach, kuke has the reputation and the brain to pull that off. I don't mean you disrespect kuke far from it (if your reading this kuke) your an awesome player and always trying to help. Therefore if I can help you ill try to point out flaws in your argument. As you seen in other suggestions I've backed u many time. So again its nothing personal, its just a way I can try to help because I cant in game because your so awesome lol.

Now for you @kirby1699 you I'm not going to be nice too. I respect kuke I told him that in the comments but you... I don't like much right now you were very mean and I don't even know you so therefore I will treat you as such.

As for your argument, Well we shall explore it see what makes sense and what doesn't also I shall make comments when necessary. Let begin.

Already answered that.

So let me get this straight you yourself think this suggestion wont work? You called my argument a fact therefore you agree with what I said. However you go on to say "So what?" then make a very foolish comment "We can make these types of suggestions as many times as we like, all you have to do is ignore them" So what you said in that entire argument is that its a fact, and this wont happen but you will continue to waste space in the suggestions sub-forum because you can? Counter productive much? Why not think your words and arguments thought instead of throwing up the same argument onto the net every few days huh? If your going to be rebellious and say "you cant stop me" try to actually support your beliefs not knock them and I beg you be intelligent about it.

Well *chuckles to myself* You haven't made an argument have you? Kuke did. You just said, "I'm a kit user, and I still can't stand kits/SG on this server anymore. It's all Pay-To-Win now, and it isn't fun anymore. A non-kit arena would bring back some of the fun to SG" That's it >.> so I don't know where your brilliant "integrity" comes from you just say what every +1 person on this thread says so no surprise there. Its kukes suggestion I like and what is carrying this suggestion in my opinion. That's why I've been trying to give him a debate match trying to strengthen his resolve and his counters against people way better then me arguing for the other side. I think I see what you were reading you just read that one comment kuke made about me not reading his response which I clarified in my next response to him. In the future try not to just read one or two responces before taking on a debate "Tsk" "Tsk" sloppy.

Too assume that players will join other arenas to "promote" kits still is presumptuous in the extreme. Obviously people who will use it wont want kits that's kind of the point of it. So if your lucky builders or players who don't know about this arena will join the kit arenas. This little non-kitter area will work in theory however it wont if you think about it. For example.

1- The builder does /sg join and sees all the people.
2- the builder will look for an open arena and sees 1 is in game (because it will always be crowded due to it being the only non-kitter arena)
3- the builder joins 2-4 because its at head level and they are still testing the server out.
4- the builder get killed by kits then rages
5- finds out there is a non-kit area
6- waits and puts arena 1 on queue
7- repeats step 6

This is the reality you give people a way to stop kits they will continue to use it and arena 1 will become the most popular because of the non-kit factor.

That is the flaw in that specific argument no one wants to write down because its doesn't need to be explained except for when someone doesn't understand their own suggestion (you). Moving on <3

Kuke has the contacts and the influence with the server owner to do it. He knows him IRL if I'm not mistaken if her really wanted to he could email, meet up, or make an extremely appealing argument to Andrew if he wanted too. I don't think he wants to mix up real life and ECC so he doesn't. However he was staff for a very long time ever since I started and he was on the ECC main page. If anyone as the weight and knowledge to back up this idea its him.

Just a little side note: If you want to make a good argument, you might not want to insult people who can make you look like a complete fool. I expected more from such an old member I thought u would have more manners or be able to understand a big boy conversation lol

Ok as a re-cap <3
-I want to help kuke by debating with him if I can.
-don't question you own beliefs
-read all the comments
-make sure you don't contradict yourself
-do research and make sure I cant argue with you
-if someone makes a comment rationalize it yourself
-think before you make accusations
-be more respectful
-and remember this is the most important, don't insult people that can COMPLETELY destroy your argument, ego, and opinions.

Questions that still need to be answered and parting comments:
1. Donations are the lifeblood for funds to the server why take that away
2. SG hold competitions to promote kits why would they stop that.
3. The scare of losing donations increased the donations why would Andrew give that up.
4. I got all I needed to say out I respond only if it helps make non-kitters arguments better.
5. I'm for the non-kitter side remember what I said, its not the time to make suggestions like this while donations are so good bide your time.

Thank you for the responses and the mental sparing it was a nice work out, hope to see you all in game or in suggestions.

 

Some people undervalue the importance of being respectful and having good manners in a debate even if they are. I used to undervalue it too. But it is very important actually. I understand it can be tempting to call someone something like "stupid, ignorant, or idiotic" if they are very bad at refuting your arguments or understanding your point.

But if you maintain your politeness and do not release your condescending feelings, or frustration, your opponent will not disrespect you and your opinion back for no reason.

Abraham Lincoln held in his frustration when debating about the issue of slavery and did not call the pro-slavery politicians a bad name or intentionally hurt their feelings or hunt for a grammar mistake and insult them for it.

 

I'm not sure if @JazzBeam comments are directed at me or not. I apoligize for any misconduct I may have displayed. No hard feelings to anyone I may have offended. ^~^ I'm sorry.

 

my whole point was that views can change overtime. when there were 928263829 of these suggestions most/all kitters were against it. now plenty of kitters are for it.

your main point is "lol suggested all the time and declined xdd" was responded to above

your other point is that "donations help the server so therefore kitters should keep advantages" is true but you clearly didn't read all points prior to making this arguments.

you see, there are more donations than sg kits that if builders are more than likely to purchase in the future. unfortunately as moofin pointed out we direct builders toward survival games when they first join. so they either join expecting survival games or if they do come for economy they are directed towards sg. unfair? Unbalanced? Yes, that's economy. However the one thing that they join and why the hell we are playing right now is for fun. Tell me, is getting 1-2 hitted in full iron fun? Getting set on fire? Not being able to hide or use the element of surprise? if kits were kept simple and ++++++ kits were never introduced we would never have a problem. sg is a staple of mine craft due to YouTube and we are not fulfilling any expectations. Builders are just leaving. That considered if we evened up anything perhaps more people will join.

We can decrease the money reward or points reward or whatever to satisfy kitters, just give everyone at least a chance to have a fun and fair way of making income. Without sg or other interesting ways of making money before melon swords or eff 7 it's just a boring grind for everyone.

@Turtwiginator95

 

It is not directed at you.

 

+1


~blaze987

 

People won't buy kits so less money for the server so this won't happen but i would love this +1

 

*farts*

 

-1
get some skill you can still win without kits

 

Yes, because skill has been proven to work very effectively against buffer users. (sarcasm)

 

sneak up on them, shoot from a far, there are options here

 

And those options work in deathmatch and close combat?

You can't keep your distance forever, lol.

 

sucks for you. buy it or dont play. there are other ways of making money.

 

Speed potion.

 

knockback.

 

Here's the problem, I don't play for the money. I just want to have fun. I don't have that fun with kits.
And there's many others who find playing without kits fun as well. This includes kit users and non-kit users.

I myself have miqpp and hntpp. But it sucked the fun right out of the game. I was just wrecking builders who had no chance at fighting back.
And in the deathmatch I usually ended up fighting a user with buffer who 1-hit me. Kits suck the fun right out of the game.

So is it weird we want an arena where there aren't any kits? no.

 

a bow with knockback requires kits....

 

a bow with knockback requires 3 sticks and 3 string. learn the mechanics of minecraft. and kuke, go play [mod edit - advertising] for non kits, fun sg.

 

People shouldn't have to leave ECC to have fun, there's a clear problem in your way of thinking there.