No one can be that desperate to loan money on a game,
Its not life and death,
Have a bit of self control and don't be that desperate.

Only reason someone can be that desperate would be to repay another loan due, and that in itself is stupid because taking a loan to pay a loan is a down-ward spiral.

Or can you think of another reason that someone would be desperate for a loan? Please share

I think your getting desperation and impatience mixed up

 

-1

ECC has no right to interfere with commerce between economic entities. If you seriously take a loan of this magnitude, they you are quite insane.

Hypothetically, wouldn't we outlaw loans for $2,000, with a total payback of $4,000?

By supporting this suggestion, you have to automatically believe that the above loan would be illegal based off of this suggestion, which in my eyes is just crazy.

 

ECC actually has every right to? The server has the right to do... actually anything it wants besides violating Canadian or international laws. To say it has "no right" to do that implies you simply don't understand what a "right" is. Whether it is in the best interest of the server is what's up for debate here, but it has a right to whether you like it or not.

The suggested idea exempts low value loans (defined as loan+interest totaling < 25k).

You don't have an actual argument.

 

This seems like over-regulation to me. The idea itself isn't bad; it is intended to further and more clearly protect players. However, in its current state it is too restrictive and, I believe, requires further refinement.

EDIT: Raise the cap for exemption status. 75k? 100k? These amounts really aren't all that much. A user at any level could grind out this money.

 

On average, for a two week period a loan accrues 100% interest. A month is too long of a period.

EDIT: After reviewing past loans the approximate interest was as follows:

• 3 day term 30-50% interest (Such a small term is for very small loans. These would have been exempted as per your current figures.)
  
• 7 day term 25-50% interest
• 14 day term 50-100% interest
• Longer terms are too irregular. They were tailored to work for the individual.

All of these loan's interest rates and terms were suggested by the player to whom the money was loaned, as per my policy. No late fees were collected, nor included in many of the contracts.

 

It's intended to not be broken down... ie 100% a month doesn't mean 3% a day. Any period within 1 month caps at 100%, be it 2 weeks, 3 weeks, etc.

 

Nicit, I understand that. What I am trying to illustrate is the fact that the cap is too low for a one month period.
Raise the amount that can be exempted or raise the percent increase per month.

In this current model, I couldn't loan 10k and ask for 30k back in a month.

 

I guess it could be raised to 50k but I personally wouldn't want it any higher.

 

200k loaned. 275k in 1 day.
300k loaned. 380k in 3 days.
300k loaned. 400k in 7 days.

These sound "predatory"? They were all completed on time, and again were at the suggestion of the borrower in regards to interest and term.

100k loaned 100k in 7 days. (Returning player. He needed to get back on his feet.)
160k loaned. 160k in 12 days. (Player needed 160k to repay his debt that night and avoid late fees or a ban. He seemed desperate and I didn't want to see him taken advantage of.)

I'm not heartless, but I am a businessman.

 

50k seems very reasonable. I think any player committed to paying off their debt could manage this with basic maxed tools.

 

@UnitedStates2 Consider this as something that may be edited in. If a loan exceeds these limits in any way, the maximum interest or maximum late fees allowed will be enforced. I don't want to see loans having no interest because of a loophole.

Ex. Enforcing absolutely no late fees because it was left open-ended. Should really just enforce one week and no more if not specified otherwise in loans, but I suppose that is another suggestion.

 

Okay guys I think it's time to clear some things up. This is not a free economy. If it was there would be no /sell hand, contracts that have to be approved by mods on the forums, and there would be no enforcement of complaints.

If we feel that a loan is unfair and predatory, we will not uphold the deal. Period. @ldw116 the example at the very top of my post, for this reason, would not be enforceable if you tried it.

This suggestion is not about putting 'stupid' people down for wanting a loan and maybe not understanding the way the economy works. With what you're saying @ldw116 it should be okay if I give a builder a 10k loan with a 1mil payback in a few days. Not only is that totally unacceptable, I'd be taking advantage of someone who had no idea how the economy worked on the server, and therefor had no idea whether that was a good deal or not.

Spoiler: Psychology term time! (cuz I'm a nerd)

This arguement reminds me a lot of the just-world hypothesis, or just-world fallacy. It's a cognitive bias that a persons actions bring morally fair consequences to that person.

It pretty much means good things happen to people who deserve them, and bad things happen to people who deserve it.

It's like Karma, but if I was injured in an accident, for example, people who use this bias (everyone :p ) might say that it happened because of who I am or what I've done in the past. In other words, I deserved it. It's hardly fair to blame me for something I had no control over, is it?

Now you might be wondering what this has to do with this suggestion. It's simple. If I was offered a loan of 500k with a 2mil payback from someone, and I accept it, it's only my fault for accepting. I have no control over what the other person may have offered, and it's certainly not my fault that they offered an impossible loan.

I'm saying this because you guys all seem to want to blame the victim, when in fact most of the fault lies with the person who offered the loan.

What Nicit is suggesting is a general guideline for loans, not an absolute rule. And ECC does have the right to 'interfere with commerce between economic entities'. It's called 1. complaints and 2. the rules. We don't allow open ended late fees for their predatory nature, and I honestly can't see a reason not to make this feasible.

I'm giving a huge +1 to this suggestion, because I can't see anything bad with implementing it.

(....may have gone a bit overboard with that rip ;-; )

 

No, @Imaginex that was dynamite. Especially the spoiler.

+1

I think that guidelines for enforcing good lending practices would actually enhance the game both in fairness, bringing the wealth gap a little closer, and keeping things competitive for vastly wealthy players who still must compete to keep their loans marketable if this is added. Real economies outside of like Somalia (Yes you are right, lad @UnitedStates2) have enforcement of reasonable guidelines and rules for both the person taking the loan and even more so for the institutions giving the loans. It is absolutely not the case that anyone "dumb" enough to sign anything should have to do whatever they agreed to. That's just not how the world works. There is responsibility for whoever is making the agreement maintaining fair or at least possible terms. It seems like a lot of players seem to think ECC is some weird Ayn Rand libertarian wonder world but it's totally not, it is not a free market economy. It is regulated and there is absolutely no reason to leave lenders unregulated other than wanting it to be that way because you want to give out unreasonable loans. It benefits everyone to adhere to a guideline intended to make loans repayable.

Plus I mean some of these kids are really young and this is supposed to be a community atmosphere. I don't think this mercenary attitude is right at all for ECC. Just because someone is too young, new or "stupid" to make a good decision doesn't meant they should be forced to adhere to these crazy deals.

And above all, moderators already dissolve many ridiculous loans, fees, or penalties as of now. It really would actually only help the lenders out to to spell out when they are going to get into the territory of a predatory loan that will be dissolved so they avoid having their loan dissolved anyhow. These are unwritten rules that already exist, they really just ought to be marked out a little officially.

 

If I auction a piece of dirt in auction for 100k and a builder buys it should I be banned for predatory auctions?

If I write a contract saying ill pay a builder 10k to place 500 thousand stone blocks do I get a ban?

If I loan someone 10 loans of 100k with 200k due back in 1 month do I get a ban? It meets the rules stated above.

- You cant enforce morality. People will always take advantage of others.

 

But they happen dont they. So what if a builder buys my dirt. Do I get a ban?

*Edit* Ok, assuming no troll auction occurs. What if I sell a builder a block of dirt for 100k. Do I get a ban