?

Would you like a trade interface in ECC?

  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    50.0%
  1. idkhowtoplay Custom Forum Title
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    There are other things that can be lowered, not just farming costs. Recently, if I remember correctly, the prices of crops for the most part either remained the same or increased. Additionally the "melon sword" was raised to 2000 nether stars, effectively "inflating" its value drastically. Some people were upset by the inflated value, however a lot of people were also very happy their items increased in value. If inflation is so horrible then the increased value of a melon sword should have wrecked havoc on the economy so far. Since it doesn't seem like that, it's safe to assume that we could raise the server values of almost anything that the server offers that's highly desirable and achieve a stable economy at the same time.

    Again, scamming and lowering crop prices would be two entirely different things. The result of "getting extremely mad" may be the same for some players but lowering a crop price takes away projected profits. Scamming removes something you've earned. It's like choosing the lesser evil, where lowering/increasing the prices of something is more viable than choosing to not combat stealing, and only reacting to it.
     
  2. JazzBeam Builder
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    Not at all. Scamming only moves money around, it does not remove wealth nor add wealth. Therefore, it would not hurt the economy if scamming was nonexistent. It hurts people financially though.

    Scamming requires skills like trickery and misleading words. It is ethically wrong.

    If scamming or simply the intention of ripping someone off, were to be nonexistent, many people would be happier.

    Scamming is morally wrong. Thats why it isn't allowed.
     
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    #22 JazzBeam, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  3. xHigh420x ECC Sponsor
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    Question... where does KH say anything about scamming in that quote? ... did I miss it? Like many other users have said, scamming only moves money around and creates shady people on the server that no one wants to deal with. It also creates a massive trust gap between the player ranks, which hurts the community. Like Kuke said about 3 times, new players being scammed out of 10k will, and does, push them away from the server... I have seen it first hand several times. What do you think would impact the economy more... no new players moving up the ranks because they got scammed out of their money, or a trade system that keeps new players coming back for more. When I first joined this server I was scammed out of 15k as a builder... not a lot you say, but try telling a builder that! I almost quit the server because that's how I thought this server was ran. After talking to a few very helpful moderators they informed me that this isn't how this server works. So I challenge you to provide concrete evidence that shows scamming is a viable method of money dumping that KEEPS players here and happy. I would totally understand your scamming point of view if this was Star Wars and we had Smugglers but we don't, this is ECC and scamming is against the server rules, plain and simple. So your argument that this feature should not be added because it will reduce scamming goes against the server rules. You are basically supporting people breaking the rules and seem to think that's a legitimate way to make money. Which is very, very wrong.

    If you have any suggestions as to why this should or shouldn't be added, that does not break the server rules, Please comment... otherwise, lets not support rule breaking by trolling a suggestion thread.
     
    #23 xHigh420x, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  4. Turtwiginator95 Builder
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    +1 I actually like this
    It reminds me of pokemon trades. Its a good way to regulate scamming.
     
  5. sthegreat2 Builder
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    + 3 1/2.

    Scamming does not help the economy. It just unfairly moves money around, unless the scammer is permabanned or quits.

    For example: A new builder gets scammed 5k or so and doesn't have evidence. He gets really mad. He scams someone else 10k and then gets banned. 10k out of the economy

    Example 2: A new builder doesn't get scammed and doesn't scam anyone else. He decides that this is a nice server, and buys res and mayor and pres eventually. 280k out of the economy.

    Compare. 10k vs 280k. Which takes out more? Come on... I know you can do it.
     
  6. knears2000 Builder
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    I would first off like to say that that was an impressive response, but totally offensive. They way you attacked me for trying to stop inflation was totally unnecessary nor called for. You've been here for a month, I've been here for about 1.5 years. So don't go around telling me that I'm a fool and troll for my view point on this matter. I took that quote from an old thread, and just copied an pasted it into my response. I'd also like to say, if you read the whole thread, you'd see my post about my standpoint on scamming, showing how inept you were to notice my posts. I'm shocked that you would so blatantly attack me like that because of what a major power on ECC said. You're not getting the point though. Without scamming in the real world and ECC, economies would inflate to the point of no return. It is extremely unfortunate to happen, but it does indeed have to be there. What is crime without peace? What is love without hate? Those are simple questions that will answer your question with "To scam, or not to have scamming".
     
  7. xHigh420x ECC Sponsor
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    If you took offense to anything I said, then it's because you cannot provide facts to back up your claims, which I find very offensive. No where did I attack you personally, I said your view was very trollish and presented no facts or evidence to back up your claims. Also, just because you have been on the forums for 1.5 years does not mean you're right or have the right to troll threads.

    Inflation - is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. It can be defined as too much money chasing too few goods.

    Please explain how keeping people's money safe, creates an excess of money. I am failing to see how extra money is being introduced into the economy with scamming. I am also failing to see how stopping people from scamming, would increase the value of an item.

    Many countries have laws against scamming and so does this server. So my question is, how is everyone's opinion that wrote laws, regulations, and rules on scamming wrong? If scamming is so great, why are there laws against it?

    As I said before, please provide an instance (in real life) where scamming is legal and has helped an economy grow... or are you too "inept" as you put it?
     
  8. knears2000 Builder
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    I'm really getting annoyed with you and attacking me. Took no offense to what you said to me? You called me a troll! You called me a felon! You completely slandered me and you were right? I'm extremely appalled by that. And since you're so hung up by what I said about what KHobbits said, click here. Also, your definition of inflation is incorrect. You took that definition straight off of wikipedia, a known source where information can be incorrect. If you want to know the real definition, you can go here. Inflation is when there is a rise in product value and a loss in the value of currency. You don't even have the correct definition for inflation, so, how in the world can you argue against me. (@iEvolive Debates with me, you will understand). I'm not for scamming, once again, which I'm extremely pissed off at that you cannot see that. If you can't see that, I don't know why you're yelling at me. All I'm saying is that when someone is scammed out of $100,000, it takes money away from the economy because most likely, the user in question will never been seen again. I'm so incredibly appalled by this that you are blatantly attacking me. If that's not enough evidence for you, I'm giving up because you cannot see my side.
     
    #28 knears2000, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  9. kukelekuuk C͕̹̲̽ͪ͐ͩ̔L̜̦̝͈ͦ̿̾̿ḘA̻̗̤̳̐ͭ̆̿̃̑ͭN̊̓͑̇ͯ
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    You realize the definition you linked is just another way of saying the same thing, right?

    Also,

    The user in question may never be seen again, but so would the user who got scammed a 100k. Is the "gain" for the server bigger than the loss of a user disappearing?
     
    #29 kukelekuuk, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  10. knears2000 Builder
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    His definition never stated a loss in value, rather a loss in products. Very different.
     
  11. kukelekuuk C͕̹̲̽ͪ͐ͩ̔L̜̦̝͈ͦ̿̾̿ḘA̻̗̤̳̐ͭ̆̿̃̑ͭN̊̓͑̇ͯ
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    "Inflation - is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. It can be defined as too much money chasing too few goods."

    A sustained increase in the price level of goods and services, meaning the price of things go up.
    It can be defined as money chasing too few goods. Implying there's too much money for the amount of goods that exist.

    You chose to interpret it the wrong way, it implying there's not enough goods, but the definition on wikipedia implies that there's too much money for the goods.

    So no, it's not very different. Too much money = money has a lower value = prices go up
    Simple, right?
     
    #31 kukelekuuk, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  12. knears2000 Builder
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    I'm going to use how my social studies teacher taught our class this. In Rome, when Rome was falling, all prices skyrocketed, and the value of money greatly decreased. This made a large majority of the population broke.
     
  13. Jetscat Builder
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    Just like the lotto, he (should) know the risks of scamming. I did as a builder, due to the rules being shoved down my throat. (Which is good) I don't know if it's the same as a Builder, if not, maybe considering increasing the suggestion to read the rules?

    At the same time, if this plugin is truly lightweight, then I don't see why extra protection is a bad thing.
     
  14. Winnazzz Builder
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    If money is represented as a tangible item that can be used for trades, then I am all for this suggestion.
     
  15. kukelekuuk C͕̹̲̽ͪ͐ͩ̔L̜̦̝͈ͦ̿̾̿ḘA̻̗̤̳̐ͭ̆̿̃̑ͭN̊̓͑̇ͯ
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    Guess what the term for that is.. You guessed it.. INFLATION.

    There's 2 ways for inflation to happen. One is the demand for items decreases, so the prices go up, which in term makes your money worth less. Or there's too much money, making money worth less, which increases item prices.

    I'm not sure what you were trying with that response, because all you did was prove my point .-.
     
  16. xHigh420x ECC Sponsor
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    You know, I have not personally attacked you... I would ask for proof of where I personally attacked you but gathering proof seems difficult for some. In fact, you have personally attacked me with multiple posts claiming I am inept because I don't blindly agree with you. Do you see me getting all huffy and puffy and "appalled".... NO! Why? Because this is a discussion and emotions have no place in a logical discussion.

    I said your view was extremely trollish because it an outlandish theory with no supporting evidence. Never once did I call anyone a troll.

    I really hope you do talk to your teacher and he teaches you that scamming is NOT a viable money dump for a virtual economy or a real life economy.

    You really need to reconsider commenting on suggestions if you are just going to make stuff up and introduce it as fact. Because 9 times out of 10 you will be called on it. Getting angry or being appalled when people challenge your claims, is not how you have a constructive discussion or debate.

    I really don't know what to say to you at this point... you still have not submitted any evidence that supports your claim... you still have not answered any of my questions... sooo......

    Thank you! I would much rather talk about this plugin than the effects of an outlandish theory. People would have the option to use or not use this trade interface. It's not mandatory, its 100% optional. This system would NOT prevent anyone from trading like they do now. It is simply an extremely safe and secure method of trading with anyone.

    Yes, this plugin does support trading with eco dollars, not sure about exp though.
     
    #36 xHigh420x, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  17. greg45865734 Builder
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    Usually people trade items for money, how would this work?
     
  18. xHigh420x ECC Sponsor
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    watch the video xD

    It is kinda boring to watch the video but it does show how it would all work.
     
    #38 xHigh420x, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  19. knears2000 Builder
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    I'll give this one last shot, then I'm done. You didn't read my post, at all. I gave you a link to go to KHobbits' response on how scamming is indeed beneficial to the economy. If you really didn't try to read that, then that's why you state that I have no evidence. Now, let's start with the basics of your response. You personally called me a troll, evidence point one for attacking me. Point two is insulting me sarcastically. Since you so dearly need your evidence, here it is. Don't deny these facts, because you can literally scroll up the page to find them.
    Both points of evidence are plain and simple there, let's take a gander at another one of your posts.

    The inept part I'm not going to highlight because I did indeed call you that and I apologize for that, but there are other points of interest there in which you blatantly attacked me.

    I'm really going to reiterate this point, again for you, and hopefully you read it. I'm against scamming and will never be for it, it just so happens to be as an economist and for myself being here so long, that if a user scams $250,000 and never returns, that takes a lot of money out of the economy, which is a great thing. It was just an unfortunate way for it leave the server. I'm trying to show you that with bad things, good things come from it. Look at 9/11 for example, it was a horrible tragedy but, now we have much safer planes and higher security in airports and train stations. I'd also like to point out that Jetscat made a great point. If a builder puts 10k into lotto and loses, it is the same thing as being scammed, as both are preventable. If you cannot see my point now, I'm going to give up because I've put every piece of information on how scamming is an unfortunate benefit to our virtual economy. I rest my case.
     
  20. xHigh420x ECC Sponsor
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    The lotto is not against the rules, scamming is. If you wish to debate whether or not scamming should or shouldn't be allowed, please start your own suggestion thread. This article is a suggestion on how to prevent something that is against the rules, not to debate about scamming. As it stands now, scamming is against the rules and is an invalid argument as to why this feature should not be added.

    If you feel I have offend you please file a user complaint and I will be glad to discuss that issue in that thread.

    If you continue to claim things that are against the rules should happen on ECC I will be filing a user complaint against you for promoting people that break the rules. I will also be filling a user complaint against you for trolling since you keep discussing things that do not relate to the original post.

    I have nothing further to say you other than read the rules.

    I look forward to hearing opinions that do not support breaking the rules!