Lol you're a joke. By taking away the ability to swear, you're taking away some players abilities to have a normal conversation with their peers. Think about it as if you weren't allowed to say the word "Hello", or any form of welcoming another user. It is the same situation as if you wouldn't let players swear. You are limiting the words they can use, and therefore affecting their social experience. Try not to be so one-sided lol.

 

Please don't call me a joke. Telling someone they cannot swear is no where near the same as telling them they can't say hello. You should have the skills needed in life to converse in a way where you don't swear. By changing the rule it is not limiting their "social experience" it is enforcing a rule. As Ladyv said above, you can't just do and say what you want. If you want to play the "social experience" card on me, why not allow political and religious discussion as well?

I am not being rude to you, so please don't be rude to me. Either carry on this conversation politely and like a proper member of the community or don't reply.

 

I'm going to re-iterate what I said..

If we respect you so much to keep the swearing to a minimum and mild, then the least you can do is respect us by letting us use that minimum and mild swearing. If you don't believe anyone who swears should get respect, then vice versa, you won't get any respect from me. Because this isn't black and white. This isn't this or that. You can't have swearing completely banned, and neither can swearing be completely allowed. It's a fricking compromise. Is it so hard to even compromise?

 

To the parents who are afraid of their children swearing:

Jk, jk. :p
Sorry for big image.

 

Anthropologically, silencing people from swearing is a giant, giant "no." (Exceptions MAY mildly/ include things that completely alter someone's physical health or cause mental health to decline at a CONSIDERABLE rate (African tribes, for example, which are STILL left mostly untouched due to respects of other cultures and human rights). And if anthropology has taught the world anything (which it has taught a lot), then you have to respect BOTH WAYS - and all cultures, mannerisms, expressions, etc. Right now all I'm seeing is those who don't mind swearing respecting those who don't, and those who don't showing almost zero respect back.

ECC never was, and never will be, one culture. You want one culture? Ban everyone who isn't American or Canadian right now. Do it. If you won't, then you won't have one culture. And trying is absolutely pointless and 100% rude.

"Family friendly" is no longer Sesame Street. Look at Chowder, Flapjack, Spongebob, Disney XD, YouTubers, the majority of singers/musicians, many movies (even PG ones), etc. Those are now the definition of Family Friendly. If those are family friendly - spewing not only immaturity, but innuendos and fake words for swears - than I honestly don't know why people are trying to use that argument against swearing.


Those who are 1000000% against swearing are acting like mild/lesser versions of religious radicals who shove their beliefs down peoples throats. Those people are not the most respectable. And when those people "win," far more leave and lose all respect for them. There is a balance of having your own beliefs and letting other people have them, but I'm not seeing much of that from those who are completely against swearing.

What I've learned on ECC in the last four years is that ANY time we have silenced swearing more than any past time (meaning the ACTUAL rule(s)), user count drops and people get absolutely f*cking terrified of ever speaking. Why this is: Because that means they are silenced and ANYTHING they say is now up for being "wrong." Learn from history. (Especially with how often bans and kicks can be dished out for simply disagreeing with a Staff member's personal beliefs.)

TBH, this swearing debate BS reminds me a lot of sex-ed in states like Texas. Instead of a partnership between two or three parties (school (server) is resource, child's own mind to find answers, and parents explaining resources), states like Texas preach silence of anything sex-ed and preach being "clean until marriage." You know what this has done - proven and with statistics? It has caused MORE problems. States whom find the middle ground of sex-ed not only have some of the most mature, well-mannered, and intelligent people.. but they have the lowest bad statistics.

(And in the case of swearing, learning and understanding -> defining personal and community cultural view and actions is often the healthiest course for anyone's mind... Especially young minds. Information is knowledge, knowledge leads to intelligence, and intelligence guides to good, healthy choices. Sheltering someone is always a terrible, wrong-minded way. It stunts mental growth significantly and will cause awkward situations in adulthood.)

Silencing is NEVER the answer. If anything, EXPOSURE helps (in moderation). By a child being exposed to MILD swearing (current compromise rule on ECC), they can learn enough to either a) slip up around parents and learn right from wrong, b) go to their parents because they have the intelligence to ask, or 3) other people within their community will define right from wrong for them (teachers, classmates, relatives, businesses, etc). TBQH, ECC and similar environments are significantly better place for children to learn the rights and wrongs of things like swearing. These environments have Staff who can moderate when things actually go too far, unlike middle or high school. I'd rather have my children learn in a place like this, talking with me about it, long before they pick up things like "c*nt," "f*ck," "a**wipe," etc. Teach them in a safer environment before they are thrown into the hell that is middle and high school, where they fully get molded out of your control past their young childhood.

 

You completely missed the point @MoofinK
Like half the others in this convosation

Which is why nothing will be done about this.

 

I think I did NOT miss the point. I simply don't have to address ONLY it because it's not being fairly brought up.

Also, that is the only thing a lot of people have to say in response to the long, thorough posts that are clearly explaining other sides... Instead of clearly DEFINING the point rather than ATTACKING people.

EDIT: The only/main point against swearing that is being made is that "it totally harms children and f*cks them up," because that is how it is all summarized based on the posts on this thread. What I find funny is that, a lot of people against swearing because of children, swear themselves (around children) and probably don't realize it. That's because a lot of children are their friends and swear around them as well.

Sure. Swearing like a sailor isn't that great. And little kids, like under 10, probably don't need words like that when they are socially accepted to cry and scream to express.

Swearing, in moderation and when it is alright, is an older person's version of crying and screaming, slamming on objects, etc. That's how we express ourselves with high emotions, to get points across, etc.

Swearing is not 100% bad. I don't see it killing people, do you? Some of the most professional and mature people in the entire world swear casually and in the right places. Words can change... And words, although harmful in ABUSIVE situations, have not done direct, plain-to-the-point, harm.

 

Again,
You missed my point, even thought you said you didn't...you did, its ok :)

The rules need to be changed to be clearer
Not because I am anti swearing
Not because I am pro swearing

Because I know that some people believe in things that I don't and and i have the decency to not swear in front of them, the people i am comfortable around, we have a party chat that anything really goes.
And yes that includes 2 staff members in that party chat. (@Nicit6 @jmichael214 @GStoner3 @Samanthurr @kiraxo14 @Limee @voltair42 @Ladyvamptress )
Do you see any of us swearing in global chat? No
Do you see us talk about Religion in global chat? No
Do you see us talk about Politics in global chat? No
Do you see us spamming global chat? No

Do you think any of those 4 things happen in Party Chat? Yes they do

Why? Because we are all comfortable around each other to know what is acceptable and what isn't.
We are civil and follow what we think is decency in chat because we also know some people do not like discussions of that kind.

I don't understand what is so hard to grasp with that...

 

I didn't miss your point. Re-read your own posts. You have... what, three or four total points? This thread is covering multiple points. Keep your OWN posts in mind and figure out what point someone is talking about. Even look at the posts you quote, lmao.

My first post was based on the CURRENT points - which are about swearing overall, how it's "bad," should never be allowed, etc. Keeping with the times and current discussion, that is where I started. Lmfao.

Also, being condescending when you aren't paying attention to the context and the specific point I was on is kinda rude. My first post wasn't even in reply to one post in particular, yet you took it as if I was responding to earlier discussions. What?

For the OLD points in the thread, and /somewhat/ relating to the OP, I personally don't find the rules to be as vague as others. The issue lies within the Staff Guidelines in the Mod+ section ... not the rules. If you are so against Staff discretion, then suggest that Staff actually made solid, all-the-way around, fleshed-out, thorough guidelines to follow so that they aren't pulling out their own biases or being stuck asking other Staff "so, um.. what do?"

Reading the current rules, it's pretty clear that you can swear (vulgar language) once in a while (moderation) and/or in modified versions (such as WTF or shiz). The suggestion OP wasn't very broad, which led to other discussions on swearing. In order to even limit swearing to certain channels, there needs to be a consensus/unanimous/majority vote on the entire scale of ANY swearing. Which, if no one has learned yet, is practically impossible because the rules are a compromise for those for and against swearing. Also, just the fact that swearing has cultural differences makes it nearly impossible to define all swears on one scale.

If you start limiting swearing to certain channels, then you start making swear word lists. That is just as impractical as adding a plugin that censors swear words. Also, once you start limiting swearing to certain channels, it makes Staffs already (apparently) lacking ability to find a way to moderate swears just in Global.

The difference with swearing vs religion and politics is vast. Religion and politics can involve extremely controversial topics, like abortion or marriage rights. It makes sense to keep religion and politics to private chats, as (at least on ECC) they blow up into stupidity in other channels. Swearing is single or a couple of words, though - and one swear doesn't define someone's human rights, money, life and death, etc. And comparing spamming is even worse... Spamming makes it impossible to see people who are actually trying to converse, trades and sales, server notices, etc.

Also, it isn't hard to grasp. I'm simply following basic conversation flow and rules by talking about the topic at hand, which relates to the OP.

 

Please see below

Clause 2 - Vulgarity

• Inappropriate and vulgar language is not allowed.

This needs changing then? Cause it does state vulgar language is not allowed
It should be Inappropriate and vulgar language is allowed if its in moderation and not directing at someone?

If you agree then yes, the rules are too vague which make your point int he previous quote obsolete.

No...if you limit it to no swearing in global, then that means if you swear in global, you'll be warned.
No need to swear lists or anything,
Makes it a lot simpler to me, while giving the people there right to swear in other channels.
Doesn't make it harder for staff, makes it tons easier

Yet if you have been in game over the past weeks and watched chat.
Swearing has been one of the starting points of massive arguments and conflicts between members because some are warned and some aren't
Its getting to the point where its just as bad as someone bringing up politics or religion because it blows up into a massive arguements.
But you wouldnt see that because you arent in game to see it happen.

I will just continue to store up and mass report people who swear in chat as the current rules state, if it isn't a slip up or a wc, then swearing is not allowed on the server.
If you disagree, then please read the rule I quoted above :)

 

+1 to allow swearing in all chats in moderation, I think the vulgarity rule is out-dated af. I don't think it's fair that some swear words are allowed and some aren't, nobody should be able to tell me what's moral or not seeing as though it's my own opinion.

 

+1

 

Im pretty sure theres a plugin to sensor certain words that can be set by an admin

 

I watch futurama and I remember that quote from when Bender made his own TV shows with vulgarity in it and the parents were blaming Bender!

I luv that show. So sad it's over

 

I think the first thing we should do is define "family-friendly". I've seen quite a wide range of versions of what people THINK it means, by their own definition. We do not have a consensus on what the term means at the moment. (spanning "g-rated sesame street" to "PG-17 because kids hear it everywhere anyway" is NOT a consensus)

Then decide if we are going to BE a "family-friendly" server, based on the above definition.

I am not saying that swearing should or should not be banned, warned, rules fine-tuned, or anything else except for "what is the definition of one of our server advertisement adjectives?"

Maybe a poll to determine exactly what family friendly means to the majority? Not Webster's definition, what us the members of ECC's decide it means.

 

For the rule as it is, rephrasing would be useful. For the suggestion itself, the rule otherwise makes sense. (The OP is asking for an addition on specifying channels, not the clarity of the main rule based on two or three words.) Also, the OP is asking people's opinions more than anything, as the suggestion isn't set-in-stone on one idea - it proposes multiple ideas. And of those ideas, there needs to be the discussion of swearing severity.

So for the rule as-is, as its own entity, it's clear but not phrased well. Most people can understand it, but rephrasing would be good.
But for this particular suggestion, it otherwise makes sense and isn't technically vague.

And I say a list of words because swearing isn't the same severity for all words - and this is very important because the whole basis of the rule is compromise due to varying cultures and types of people. By limiting swearing to channels as a whole, it completely ruins the entire point/compromise of the rule UNLESS you start making lists of mild words allowed as slip-ups in places like Global. (And when you get to the end of my post, if you think hard enough, you'll see another reason why limiting swearing to things like PM and private town channels won't work.)

ECC Global has been a giant mess for over a year now. It has just encouraged users to complain about everything.. especially topics that ECC alone has made taboo or debatable. (I've seen users have heated debates over stupid crap like pie vs cake, threatening to kill people, etc.) Also, if there are arguments exploding, Staff should stop them. Warn, warn, kick, and if needed - ban. Letting arguments continue even after being told to stop is why they continue. People think they are allowed to because nothing is being done fast enough or stern enough. People learn to not start problems when they learn that those problems aren't allowed. Basic psychology. And those who don't fit in basic psychology (most should) are the ones that don't need to be in the community because they will (likely) never smarten up. (Or it will take them a few years to experience life.)

As for people getting different warnings... Again, that's a Staff thing. It's up to them to actually made guidelines that the Staff can follow so that Staff discretion and biases don't get in the way. Also, for the past three years, a lot of those who don't get warned are the ones who likely won't get in trouble/warned/banned because a) they donate a lot, b) they are a high rank, and/or c) they've been around for years and no one wants to cause unrest by "banning an important user!" (All elitism.) Sadly, a lot of those who meet that criterion are the problem and make it worse for every other potential, loyal user. I mean, look at the 50+ regular user drop from a year ago when users were the source of all hell breaking lose (in the end)...

Also, I don't get in-game because chat has been a giant mess for over a year. (That's not even including the reason for me being 1) creeped on by perverts, 2) getting stalked, and 3) harassment when I never even talk or announce my presense.) I see it plenty regular with the amount of screenshots that tons of people send me, showing me just how messy it is all the time with nothing being done about it. It's absolutely not worth getting on when everything is a constant hatefest or elitists putting everyone down for not being as "cool." The only good chat is in private, and good luck getting there unless you join with a bunch of friends or somehow manage to get into cliques (Staff and clans/parties/mass regions).

 

The episode was called Bender Should Not Be Allowed on TV.
"We're F.A.R.T.! Fathers Against Rude Television!"
:D

 

@GStoner3 I always find that defining something more and being more specific with any rules are a good thing.

That being said, I know for a fact a few lawyers play on the server as well as some people that should take the bar. A few of them should be able to define many sections to be a lot more specific if asked.

The question of if "bad language" should be allowed. Only in private chats, and even then, only with people that are okay with the language. If we say, swearing is okay in moderation then we must define "moderation". Once we do that, what happens when someone purposely skates the rules? Saying hurtful things with just enough of a gap to not get banned is not moderation.

As @Mission001 has said before, we are part of a chat that the participants are okay with each other enough to swear or bring up difficult conversations. Part of that is knowing that if one of the participants aren't okay with discussing that topic, then we stop. You, can't assume that such things will work in general/local chat.

 

I wonder how you know that for a fact.. hehe @Dewsy92

 

I just figured out that if we can't curse, we can't swear to god O_O