Apology to EcoCityCraft. ~ blowtube123

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by brandbauer, Jan 16, 2014.

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  1. JBuks

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    lawyered x2
     
  2. Maco20047

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    The fact that I made a thread to congratulate you with my sincerest thoughts, I also felt like I got donkey kicked in the gut. Whether or not you world edited it, used screenshots, schematics, or whatever, a simple reference in your entry would've been nice. Whether you intended to or not, you projected that your spawn was your own creation and design.

    Now, taking into account that you did apologize to everyone, and documented your progression and sources, I think it was a sincere apology.

    Apology Accepted
     
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  3. kukelekuuk

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    I myself think permabans are incredibly harsh, I wouldn't be able to stand not being able to play on ECC. And what you're saying is your own opinion, don't force that opinion on others. What you said is plain rude, disrespectful and insulting.
     
    #103 kukelekuuk, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
  4. Mineo_2000

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    Thank you for your apology blowtube123 we all know that you cheated a little bit but some of it was your build the ECC stuff but some people think that perm bans are not harsh well i DISAGREE! because perm bans are harsh and i hope to see you back on ecc soon blowtube123

    apology accepted
     
  5. LordCwispy

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    Well, isn't this a controversy. I think this apology is well thought through and well documented. In fact, if you were to take this into a court of law and I were on the jury and after having read your testimony, and having viewed the 2 builds, I would have to read the letter of the law in order to determine whether or not you infringed on a copyright here or not, if it is even copyrighted. Granted, you may have failed to give credit for your inspiration. Yes, you have learned a valuable lesson: "give credit where credit is due." However, I don't see where you would have stated that you used something as inspiration.

    I see the inspiration that you got and see the similarities:
    • Pillar foot print (5 by 5 with 1 by 1's cut out of the corner.
    • Pillar header.
    • Double Arches between the pillars.
    • 5 Archways on the first floor and 3 on the second
    • the triple threads on the pillars near the top of the bottom arch.
    • You use similar fascia at the top of the walls.
    However, you put a lot work into this and it isn't a complete copy as seen by the differences:
    • Your pillars use the same material for the entire pillar.
    • You use different materials for the 3 archway fascia, which give a nice contrast to the building.
    • You don't have the triangle above the center archways.
    • You don't have the circular symbols above the center archways.
    • You don't have the top floor duplicated.
    • Your archway curvatures are different.
    • Your fascia at the top of the walls are solid and the central depression above each arch is much wider.
    • You added pyramid fixtures above each outer pillar, which is completely unique.
    • You don't even attempt to duplicate in anyway the central sculpture.
    • You don't have duplication of the outer courtyard, or inner courtyard.
    • You as you noted, placed the structure on over a circular plateau adjusting the pillars to set on the plateau or off the plateau as is needed.
    • You don't use trees in your structure.
    • You don't have the transparent ceiling in the center of central top archways between the outer and inner wall.
    • Your globe is completely unique, though it might be borrowed from somewhere else.
    There might be more similarities and differences. But, this also doesn't take into account all the other work done to make this building completely unique to ECC, with ECC logos and theming. It also doesn't take into account all of the shops/portals that you spent a lot of time putting into the building. Taking something as inspiration and modifying it is part of how we advance as a society: culturally, scientifically, artistically, and especially architecturally. It is these new ideas added to old ones that move things forward for us all..

    Should you have cited your inspiration, yes. But, the format of this competition didn't make it obvious that this would be necessary or give a way for you to do so. So, considering your age, I can understand your error and yet, I think you should still take pride in what you did accomplish.

    Copyright infringement happens, but, using a work as inspiration with such modifications as you have made most likely doesn't actually infringe on any copyright (real or implied). The same is true of patent infringement.

    Now, with all that said, it is still andrewkm's right to nullify your entry and whatever else he seems to be necessary to deal with this issue. But, it seems to me that it is more any honest mistake than an attempt to cheat anyone out of anything.
     
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  6. LordCwispy

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    Very well said.
     
  7. LordCwispy

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    I didn't even consider that pibbert's design is in the public domain and at this point is not copyrightable anymore, period, ever.
     
  8. brandbauer

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    Honestly, this explains my entire input on this situation.

    Thank you for showing others my view on this topic.
     
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    #108 brandbauer, Jan 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  9. TheKDshowz_Kevin

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    Well Blowtube when I first heard about this news I was very surprised. I thought, "Why would he do this?" After going through many conclusions this thread came up. When I understood this situation it was clear! I sincerely miss the "Human Beacon" and I miss you too! Awkward not seeing you in-game .-. Hope to see you in-game soon!



    - Apology Accepted -
     
    #109 TheKDshowz_Kevin, Jan 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  10. Intellectualist

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    I haven't really said anything about this yet but I did see when your spawn was accepted. And I was rather surprised a few days later when Andrew said you had cheated by copying someone elses spawn.

    My feelings toward you didn't really change at that point though. I was waiting to see your side of the story.

    To be honest, you really shouldn't be apologizing for this. You didn't download pibberts spawn and then just edit it. You started from scratch, and got your inspiration from a few pictures on google.

    I'm an artist myself, and know firsthand what inspiration is, where it comes from, and the difference between your own work and someone elses work your got your inspiration from. You took inspiration from several photos, and made a spawn based on those references and inspiration. The cheating post and the ban (whichever you saw first) were as just a big shock to you as they were to everyone else.

    Now honestly, I bet the first thing that came to everyone's mind was "That dirty rotten cheater, I'm glad Andrew banned him, I hope he never comes back." And if you go look at the thread, it's full of people cheering Andrew on about how he banned you and how glad they are that he caught you and on and on.

    Now honestly I don't know how many people here are artists (at least seriously). I would like to hear what annyonion has to say about this topic, after reading your post. I know she is a very good artist.


    I think that the first reaction of this community was immediately bad. I agree, it was easy to jump to the conclusion "Yup, blowtube just stole the whole thing and claimed it as his". But I think a better first response for Andrew would have been to ask you to explain yourself.

    To consider this matter deeply, I could even say that Andrew is the one that owes you an apology. He jumped to immediate conclusions about you, without getting your explanation first.

    Now I know, the internet is the internet and we can't trust everything we read.



    In the end Blowtube, I was never really upset with you, and I understand your situation completely. I hope that this whole situation doesn't damage your reputation permanently. If you ever need any help, I'm here.
     
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  11. chris227227

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    Blowtube,
    I found out today who built the spawn and was surprised when I asked in the donator chat who actually built spawn. I liked the spawn and full appreciate the work you and also Pibbert put in. Because this was not your intention to completely copy Pibbert's build, only to make a close version which took a large amount of insparation from it i would like to welcome you back to the community as a more humble person.
    Seeya soon,
    -Chris
     
  12. Jorgy411

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    I can relate to this being an artist in real life as well, and I find myself taking inspiration from multiple different sources around the net to try and come up with something unique or new.

    I dont site my sources, ever. There is no need to. I mean, unless I am seriously copy and pasting something into my design (which i never do), there is no need to do so if I can recreate it using my own style and methods. If you were to compare side-by-side my inspiration and my final project, you would have trouble finding similarities. Nothing is original anymore. Someone Somewhere has already created an original piece, and anyone can argue about how unoriginal something is if someone says they created something original. When it comes down to it, the artists personal style will always creep in. So even if you did find inspiration off someone else to base your work on them, your own style will always show up inevitably, thus making your work something completely new and different. Ya sure, if you look close, you can tell what might have been used as inspiration for your piece, but what matters is how the piece turns it into something new and different.

    Blowtubes submission pulled bits and pieces off Pibbert's design, but you can significantly tell where his own personal style crept in to make it something completely new and personal. The only thing people are getting caught up on (in my opinion) are the tall narrow pillars and double arches that connect them. Seeing as thats probably the most iconic thing about pibberts design, it'd only be natural to try and see if he could done something with great magnitude and awesomeness.

    Again, the argument here is that Blowtube is banned for plagiarizing someone elses spawn and/or not giving them credit for some design aspects he used in his own design. I personally think that andrews punishment towards blowtube is a bit overkill and needs to be withdrawn or at least reduced.
     
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  13. MsMoofin

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    I am an artist. I am getting my AA in Art and transferring to get an Art in Education BA. I have been in art communities for over seven years, I have done research, and delved into the copyright aspects of it all. I know the dos and the don'ts in art. My professors have also praised me a fair amount (unlike most of my other classmates the past two years) for being as original as possible, and creative, without being cliche, taking ideas, or copying.

    Starting from scratch does not matter when you completely recreate someone else's work. There's creating, and there is making. Blowtube did the making work; not the creating work. To be inspired is to get ideas and change them, make them your own, and apply minor aspects and concepts of them. To copy, recreate, reproduce, trace, and so on, is to take the exact whatever-it-is (in this case, the pillars, exact dimensions, near-exact and exact arches, floor shapes and holes, etc) with minor edits. In this case, whether Blowtube knew he was doing it or not, he was copying/tracing Pibbert.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inspiration
    One example of inspiration put to use: "Oh, I love Picasso's use of geometric shapes in his work Guernica... The contrast is great, too. But I love the use of color and realism in Salvador Dali's Cinquenta...Tigre Real. Now I really want to do some high-contrast, vibrant and rich art involving some geometric shapes. I really enjoy surfing, so maybe I can apply those geometric shapes to a surf board and the landscape, and use some more abstract vibrant colors with a lot of contrast! Maybe including seagulls, an animal I enjoy, would be nice - Dali's tiger and Picasso's wild animals are a good idea."

    Example of copying/tracing and not using inspiration: "I am going to draw a giant seagull with geometric shapes just like Picasso, bright colors like Dali - the orange!, and a lot of contrast. Maybe making the seagull's anatomy distorted like Picasso does will look great, too! But I will keep Dali's textures and some key aspects of the seagull realistic like Dali."

    Andrew has no need to apologize, as having a spawn that has copied/traced elements - especially at this scale and amount - without proper given credit, and when the original spawn is available for all to use (and other servers do use it), could get him into trouble (because the credit wasn't given), cause drama/issues, or make us look unoriginal and/or lazy.

    (If I went into the whole aspect of copyright, art "felonies," art communities, etc... What Blowtube did would be highly unacceptable to the majority, simply because he (initially) did it in a profit-making environment and scenario. He would get far, far greater hate if this was outside of a gaming community. Serious artists are serious people and don't take copying/tracing lightly.)

    ECC is trying to be unique and different; not the same as others. ECC is trying to look like it is hard-working and caring, not lazy or trying to do what everyone else is because it's easier.

    Because of all of this, Andrew didn't jump to anything. He spent time physically (in-game) comparing the spawns side-by-side, measuring, etc. Although I am not in complete agreement with public announcement, and definitely not in agreement with the word "cheating," Andrew took the right action. As well, not making it a permanent ban makes it far less of a jump.

    As well, I do know and see true inspiration on Blowtube's part; mainly in the central /spawn area, in the shop buildings, and the tutorial floor. Those are his own creations as far as I know, which is a good thing that I do appreciate and enjoy.

    I do enjoy the spawn, for the most part, and I am on the fence of "glad" that it is staying. Blowtube and Staff changed it enough to not make ECC "look bad" and to have some originality/ECC flare.

    I do still accept Blowtube's apology, and I am very slowly forgiving, because I don't think Blowtube entirely knew what he was doing (it happens, I see it a lot). Only reason I have not forgiven so easily, and have been so harsh, is because the act of it bothers me, as at least one other person had been disqualified for using a build/schematic and/or copying from image(s).
     
    #113 MsMoofin, Jan 23, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  14. outerlocal

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    Why are people even still talking about this?
    I think it was a slight overreaction in the first place, but either way, it happened, and it's been dealt with.
    It's time to move on. Rising is just around the corner, so lets look forward to that, and forget about silly things like this. Please?
     
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