Denied Instead of certain bans

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by FamilyFurst, Dec 5, 2017.

?

What punishments would you like to see?

Poll closed Jan 2, 2018.
  1. Demotion in rank?

    41.7%
  2. Removal of place command (right click) and/or break command(left click)?

    41.7%
  3. If caught griefing, the 'Mods/Admins' open up your town to be griefed for 24 hours and forum posted.

    25.0%
  4. If you intentional steal/break someone's tool, all your items become auctioned by Mods/Admins?

    16.7%
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  1. FamilyFurst

    FamilyFurst Ecc King of Koopa's
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    At the Admins/Mods discretion, and depends upon the offense, possible revoke "x" abilities/commands, maybe hit them with a rank penalty, with a stipend of not being able to apply for that rank for "x" days. Although, I don't see why 98% of the players do the idiotic stuff they do, but I also think it might help the player base if the punishments, became a bit more creative?

    I still think some actions of players should just get slapped with a ip ban, and be forgotten. But, I also think a lot players make stupid mistakes, and might benefit from a strong, stiffer in-game punishment rather than a ban. The more players that Ecc has logged, the better it looks to new players, and also means more votes overall to get Ecc up the rankings.

    This is just my ramblings.
    Familyfurst/Shortbus
     
  2. OppyStoppy

    OppyStoppy Pain
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    +1! I don't understand why you can multiple times come back from perma's.
     
  3. 314

    314 Irratioπal President, former ServerAdmin
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    Major -1. Taking ranks away causes too many issues.

    President -> Mayor, or Mayor -> Resident:
    GAs would need to check whether the player previously had that rank because they shouldn't get yet another town with a pretty cheap application. But that's only the case if the player keeps their town - we could remove the town from the server and potentially allow them to buy a new town with their rank application, but that would cause issues with 1. the forum's app documentation, 2. contracts regarding the town's ownership and 3. players living in the town.​
    Tycoon(+) -> President(+):
    Similar issue with town claims, albeit not as severe (unless their town claims would get taken away, in which case the aforementioned issues would arise).​
    Resident -> Builder:
    IMO a rank penalty is far too harsh for relatively new players.​
     
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    #3 314, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  4. LaggyTryHard

    LaggyTryHard ♛Exalted Builder♛
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    -1 for all the possibilities that you listed above

    "If caught griefing, the 'Mods/Admins' open up your town to be griefed for 24 hours and forum posted."
    - The owner of the town isn't necessarily the one who is living in it or has built some of the structures. You would be potentially destroying work from players who obey the rules. Also, checking each and every block to see if the owner had placed it is time consuming and honestly more of a punishment in itself than a reward for the victims.

    "Removal of place command (right click) and/or break command(left click)?"
    They can still cause a lot of chaos even without the ability to place or remove a block.

    "If you intentional steal/break someone's tool, all your items become auctioned by Mods/Admins?"
    Tools should be lent out to trusted players, and if they break it, its kinda your own fault imo. If its a breach of contract and all that jazz, then they do whatever the contract said.

    "Demotion in rank?"
    @314 has already demonstrated how this could be bad.
     
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    #4 LaggyTryHard, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  5. FamilyFurst

    FamilyFurst Ecc King of Koopa's
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    Just thinking outside the box! I think all the bans are possible doing more harm overall than good. I think more alternative punishments should be taken into consideration.
     
  6. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
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    imo none of these really counter people intentionally breaking severe rules.

    short tempbans are fine for people who commit "stupid" offenses that don't really hurt others (swearing, trolling, etc).

    while we could issue fines and the like, fines are counter-intuitive when involved in any financial crime (making it harder to get out of debt just means that someone who appeals is less likely to even try).
     
  7. FamilyFurst

    FamilyFurst Ecc King of Koopa's
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    What if players could get a temporary flag or term added to their name in chat, like ctag? Like "Cheater" or "Griefer" or "Dishonest" which they keep for "x" days, which alerts other players they have done something silly? Or add a jail server? Where, they are stuck in it until they mine enough currency to leave? Depending on the offense, could even have them stuck there mining until they make enough money to pay back a unpaid loan, or until they reach the required amount of monies needed to be released?

    Trying to think of someway to allow them to seem productive, and keep them online, but at the same time, they are being punished. I just know the more people we show online, they better it looks when new/returning players come back? I understand my idea's might not be the brightest, and such, but I do think creating a way to keep "players who need to be punished" online is a overall better route than just banning them, unless they totally "****ed up".

    Maybe this whole theory is stupid, I don't know, I just know from previous games I have played, mostly old school muds, punishments can sometimes be harsh, but does still allow players to do something semi-productive to keep the overall activity alive.


    I do appreciate everyone's feed back, even when it seemingly condemns my idea's. I believe criticism is how we reach the best solution, even if it is just condemning the whole idea itself.


    <3 FamilyFurst
     
    #7 FamilyFurst, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  8. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
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    Problem with that is that most trolls will wear this stuff with pride. It's practically rewarding them for breaking the rules.

    I get the logic but this is also now a nonissue as bans are not network-wide. If you get a temp on the main server you can just connect to some other server on the network.
     
  9. steveshizzle

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    I can only see the demotion of rank feasible if it's a scamming case in which the scammed money was used to buy the rank (which has already been used as a punishment before). Otherwise some of your other suggestions seem kind of extreme or unfair or otherwise unrealistic.
     
  10. ajp79

    ajp79 President
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    Eliminate the enforcement of loans like in the past and half the bans would be gone.... Loans are one of the biggest problems on the server and have hurt the economy to some degree...

    Imagine all that money utilize for the markets rather then SB or Lotto which is mainly why people are stupid enough to take loans thaws know they can never pay...

    Outside of that... it’s a community of mainly immature individuals who have very little respect for rules and authority.. they really is no “real” way to regulate it.

    The system in place has worked well for 6 years... why fix what isnt really broken.
     
  11. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
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    who does that help?
    you hurt players like me who play the game fairly and only benefit scammers (who will likely still solicit and take loans, simply to now face no repercussions when they don't pay)
     
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  12. ajp79

    ajp79 President
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    No real response... didn’t word it right and quite honestly don’t have the time to explain what I was saying right now...

    Just never been a big fan of the whole idea...

    Yes... loans do provide an advantage to users that are smart and take it seriously... Now money is just thrown around with only a handful of players putting it to good use. By eliminating the enforcement.. maybe less would risk just throwing money away and invest it into something worth while.. or ensure the players they deal with are serious about repayment.

    We have had this argument before.. lol

    I never win it.
     
  13. Jdawger

    Jdawger Goes by Brass Scribe everwhere except MC & ECC
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    This is similar to the “make SG hacking punishment more severe” suggestion.
    What if the person ended up being innocent? We would be destroying the career of an ECC player who potentially did nothing terrible.
    It’s common knowledge that our traffic has decreased over the years. I hate to see it go down more because players are quitting because of these reasons.

    Plus, we all make bone headed mistakes (like forgetting to replant crops for example). We are all humans; it’s in our nature.
    Should we have a potentially career ending punishment for something rather dumb?
    Should someone be arrested for leaving the fridge open?
    Of course not!

    So, that is why this gets a -1 from ol’ Jdawger.

    *steps off soapbox*
     
    #13 Jdawger, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  14. FamilyFurst

    FamilyFurst Ecc King of Koopa's
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    I think this thread might be getting a little more, berating than I had originally planned. I am simply trying to find new creative ways of punishments, not looking for people to demean others in theirs ideas. (Not naming anyone.) I am a fairly mature adult, never been arrested, my last traffic violation was 11 years ago, and yet, I am still capable of making mistakes.

    While, the rules and bans currently in place, does help resolve a great deal of issues, I feel during my absence, it has some how crippled the economy of players. Maybe is was many variables, but I just want to try to figure out idea's how to make Ecc more forgiving, while still punishing people for the same issues at hand. Banning being the answer to nearly everything pretty much means only older people or mature people will play, and in which case, while Ecc is awesome as far as what you can do, it also makes many people feel uneasy, and scared to do anything, therefore possibly just making them head elsewhere to seek a more forgiving environment.
     
  15. 314

    314 Irratioπal President, former ServerAdmin
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    However, the very purpose of this forum is to analyze the potential effects of such suggestions.

    I didn't have enough time to reply to all suggestions yesterday, so:
    Combine that with a loan or something similar and you basically have a guaranteed scamming complaint coming up, unless the debtor makes a lucky sportsbook/lotto bet.
    As LaggyTryHard stated, this causes issues because not everything in those towns belongs to the punished player.
    Town builders/residents basically lose the one advantage that towns offer over the /wild, co-owners lose their investment. Also, potentially losing everything you placed in a vault town due to legal grief would be another reason for players to quit, IMO it's disproportionate retribution to lose up to hundreds of thousands of ECD for a single offence.
    What about shared tools? What about tools on payment plans?
    Auctioning them would punish innocent players for trusting someone else; not auctioning them means that you can completely avoid punishment by asking a friend to say "Yes, we do share those tools - therefore you can't confiscate them".
     
  16. LaggyTryHard

    LaggyTryHard ♛Exalted Builder♛
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    Now that the listed suggestions have been deemed unusable, what are some possible suggestions or changes to the old ones that could be implemented into the server?
     
  17. andrewkm

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    You want me to go through the entire forum, change ranks, edit profiles, edit threads, and do useless stuff because our punishment system doesn't suit your creative mind... lol

    I prefer to focus on actually providing new features and content for the community as opposed to new and innovative ways to ruin peoples hard work. Sounds evil actually.

    Furthermore I am very happy with our entire @Moderator+ team and think they are doing a great job.

    Denied.
     
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    #17 andrewkm, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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