[Suggestion] Harsher Punishments for Serial Scammers

Well in all honesty why would we like serial scammers who have been given multiple warnings.
They just ruin the server.

 

-What I'm saying is to get it into their head that it's their last chance from andrewkm/ a server admin. Just to intimidate them, then if they scam again.... BAM, they're gone.

-Permabanning scammers after the first few appeals is actually good. THen, they'll probably learn their lesson because the message is coming from the highest authority on ECC. If they continue, no more chances and then they're gone for good. No more scams, no more giant hate threads.

-This isn't a hate thread. It is not directed at a certain person.

 

Andrew/Sky don't have time to deal with every single perma ban that comes through.

And if we perma ban scammers, many many good people will be gone, many even, that would have turned around. They would also be unhappy, because we would be known as a rule harsh server, that doesn't give second chances.

kukelekuuk00

Help me out here, there's so many reasons against this idea and I can't name em all.

 

We are talking about serial scammers who choose to break the rules numerous times, they haven't shown changed before so how can they turn around?

 

They can ALWAYS turn around.

 

Dork, we've debated for a while now. You've seen me post, I've seen you post. You know that I almost never let emotions get in the way of debating.
But your statement there, it's very hard for me not to start twitching and burst out in irritation.


They can always turn around, and there is no evidence to disprove it.

 

But why should we give them chance after chance after chance.......Why should WE, the users suffer from them.

 

Yes, they may turn around eventually, but why should we give them lot's of chances and let innocent users suffer?.

 

We don't have to suffer, easy easy easy methods are in place to keep us from being scammed.

We might as well perma ban for every offense. Because we don't want spammers, griefers, swearing people, or trolls on ECC.

Why not perma ban them all on the second offense? Why has no suggestion been made for it? Why not I ask? Because scammers are hated the most. The entire community hates them, and will literally do anything to keep them from being on ECC.

 

You are completely blowing this out of proportion, it seems to me that you read the suggestions and only reply to the pieces you want to hear.

Simple answer is, why should we keep giving these scammers a chance, sure give them one chance or even two, but after that, they know the rules and they are going out of their way to break them on purpose.
Why do we want people like that on ECC?, we don't do we and I'm sure most will agree with me here.

 

How am I blowing this out of proportion? Scamming is just as bad as griefing.

We should continue giving these scammers a chance because, the simple answer is, they deserve it. We've all done bad things, on ECC and off it. Everyone has, and yet, we get chance after chance. Why don't we give Thieves life jail time? We don't want thieves in real life, why not give them life in prison? You may think I'm blowing this out of proportion again, but, I'm not. If real life principles don't apply to ECC, then we are on a whole new level of debate.

Why do we want scammers on ECC? Truthfully, we don't. But everyone deserves a second chance, even scammers. Everyone can change, and, to be frank, you cannot dispute that fact "everyone can change". There are many members of ECC that have scammed, and turned around and become useful members of ECC. Some even who are staff. There are even Staff today that have done far far worse things then scamming, before they became staff.

To be honest, no one is really giving this discussion a critical, level-headed, and objective view. It's based upon the simple logic of Scammer = Bad. Bad = We don't want.

But the discussion goes much deeper then that. By Perma banning scammers, even after a few offenses, we will give the server a bad name. No one is perfect, not even ECC. Stomping out scamming forever is impossible. Hindering it is possible, but getting rid of it forever is not going to happen.

Take another real life situation. Whens someone breaks a law, they get sent to jail. Life jail? No. Death sentence? No. So what gives? We obviously don't want bad people living in our country. You may be calling me out on the perspective issue again. But like I said before, if we can't apply real life principles to ECC, we have no basis for decisions anywhere.

Let me wrap up by saying this. Scamming is bad, yes, but people deserve second chances. I may not have changed your mind, or even made a dent in your belief, but I have replied in-depth. You may still hate scammers, and I can't change that easily. If you still think this suggestion should go forward, by all means, keep your support for it. But I'm afraid, I won't be there next to you, cheering it on.

Thank you.

 

Jason, I don't think you're getting the point that dork, sneaky, and I are making. We are suggesting that we give them three chances. (Three is a lot.) Then if they blow it for the fourth time, they must appeal to andrewkm/wewin. Not many people will risk that because they know that their chances of getting back are slim after ban four. Another thing, you may see a scammer as a good person.... living the lavish lifestyle, joking around, having fun, but think about those who suffer because of them... I just think that's insensitive.

Permanently banning scammers would actually give ECC a good name. I hear many builders complain that they've been taken advantage of and scammed. If the repeat offenders (with evidence) are gone, then, there would be a lot less scamming going on. Yes, they may trash talk ECC, but they'd eventually be banned whereever they are next.

Actually, I think that the point that he's trying to make here is that if you are a repeat offender that you will suffer the most serious consequences. Sometimes... people repeatedly get unbanned saying "sorry, won't do it again." Then they're off the hook and do it again thinking they don't get much punishment.

[About your last paragraph]Also...I don't think you get the point. This suggestion is about repeat offenders third, fourth, or even fifth time offenders. We give them many chances to get it straight.

 

I hope you guys have figured out this by now, but you will never be able to reach an agreement without a radical change in personality and beliefs. This thread is going to continue to get hopelessly long with the argument, so how about letting different people post and seeing their opinion?

 

No, I mean that there are two very distinct sides to this thread:

• Those who favor this new punishment policy due to a belief of "enough chances are enough."
• Those who do not favor this new punishment policy due to a belief of "everyone deserves another chance."

I, personally, agree with Jason on a philosophical basis that isn't going to change because of a forum thread; and probably the same goes for anyone else with this stand-point. I can probably assume the same for anyone who has posted in this thread.

Also, that is a personal attack; saying it isn't changes nothing. The concept of freedom of speech is limited by the "harm principle," which truly I know no specifics about. Tagging u/unidan revanrose6 as she has a much better educational background to explain what this thing even is.

Criminal Justice Major Here!