But this is what we are referring to. It's the one-line "spam" warns that really aren't needed. If it was multiple messages...different story. But the occasional one line spam...why warn for it if it's not consistent? It's understandable that you have guildelines. But it's how they're applied. If you have a user that's prone to swearing, there's no ground for 'slipups,' and I agree they should be warned for. If it's me, for example, I never swear ingame. If I have a slipup, does it make sense to go to a formal extend to warn me? But what defines a touchy subject? I've been in on conversations that are full-blown religion and politics and not been warned, but in a conversation about global wealth that had me and @UnitedStates2002 and @knears2000 warned for saying "Vladimir Putin is a rich man." But even the smallest things could become rocket science on the internet. Quite honestly, with ECC being a global server, phrases like @7amoodw mentioned which have a definitive meaning of "Hello" or "Goodbye" should be allowed, but full sentences? Yea, warn for that. It's also the part of a moderator to hold server spirit and promote fun gameplay. Enforcing rules to the dot on the "i" and the cross on the "t" is not the solution. I'm not against the rules. I'm merely opinionated in how they are enforced. And honestly, there's my issue. To everyone: I'm not bashing the rules, nor am I bashing Taylor. I'm merely stating my opinion as how it contradicts to his. We each are entitled to our own opinions, and we each disagree.
We warn for one line spam, because it is spam It's against the rules and not allowed. Usually with swearing the user is taken into account. A user with a history of using foul language would bno doubt have a stricter punishment, someone like you for example, would get a verbal warning. Yes it may be a slipup that you say something bad but it's still against the rules. I can't deny your third point, we do need to crack down on political/religious discussions. They ae not allowed so users should not be engaging in them. Why should we allow certain phrases and not others? Next thing we'll be wanting full sentences made legal. The rule is English only in chat, I don't understand the need to speak another language unless you are completley new, even then it's in local so it's limited as to who can see it. In my opinion, I think enforcing rules is the solution. We enforce the rules so players can have a fun time. Some people don't want to see their chat clogged up with spam and swearing and trolling. There's no denying helping others is part of the job, but enforcing rules helps to help others have a fun expierence. Like I said before and Mission said, take it to skype or somewhere we can't hear it. Also, I don't take it as bashing I like to hear what others say, as long as they can do it properly, like you have done
Since we're talking spam now. Can anyone actually specify what is meant with "correct context"? Or is it open to interpretation? @Nicit6 could you clarify it?
@xX3PICREBELXx @Kieran_Billo unless you have valid input on this, stop posting here. I have gone through and deleted all irrelevant comments here.
Sorry I didn't know my posts were irrelevant, can you quickly explain to me either here or in a private pm to me what the rules are on relevant posts, I'd really like to stop this from happening in the future
Makes sense. But then that rolls back to that whole culture of swearing that @kukelekuuk00 has mentioned through other threads. Some moderators will come from backgrounds with swearing, others with not. It's a grey area...but no sense in running around it as I understand your point here. That's kind of what I am saying. It's more the fact that the smaller pieces are cracked down while some big discussions can be let go. Honestly, mentioning a government (i.e. the US government, British Parliament) or a governmental figure (the President, PM of England, Putin, etc.) should be allowed in the proper context. History question in trivia? Homework question in global? Sure; why warn someone for getting an answer? Same with my aforementioned example of Putin, we mentioned his name as a rich man in the context of global wealth? Is the answer inherently political? No, not really. However, if taken away from that context, then it becomes warn/kick worth. Because those phrases have no inherently bad impact on chat. "Aloha" is hello and goodbye in Hawaiian, "Hola" and "Adios" are the phrases in Spanish, and Bonjour and Adeui are French. What's wrong with people's greetings being in a different tongue? It's not like they are going out on a limb to say something like swear words. Honestly, making a list of some simple greetings from various languages can be done on a website, and anything else is a warning. It's just...frustrating I guess to get warned for a word that means hello. And no, people don't want full sentences...quite frankly I have no idea why you'd want to (unless it's your native tongue of course ) Enforcing the rules is the solution, but it is HOW they are enforced that everyone is griping about. ECC's community is civil enough to resolve many difficulties on their own, and the Moderators clean up the rest. There's no need to nitpick over "Hola" or the mention of "Putin" in passing. I'm fine with the rules, don't get me wrong, I just am not thrilled with how we go about working with them sometimes. Also, to clear something up, I'm 99% sure the trolling stems from discontent with staff. People internalize it, but I know some people... that's their open-hearted goal. I personally believe that laying off a bit and just watching things happen before stepping in might help cutting the trolling.
I have to agree with @TaylorBros22 on most things minus the SPAM rule!!!! , I for one am happy that they do not allow religious and political discussions, ECC is not a debate forum, its a game. I do agree with most of the current rules, for me it makes this server enjoyable over other less moderated servers. Now the only speaking English part may need some minor adjustments, for example if someone says hi or by in their native tongue I have no issue with it, but if they decide to start speaking only in their native tongue I have issues with that. The spam part I have some issues with, I personally see spam as the same word repeated over and over again in chat, where as I see the staff consistently warning people for spam when they type some thing like nooooooooo. So when someone wishes to express them selves by typing nooooooo they get warned and I think that is not right by any means, I see it as disrespectful to the user IMO. I think the whole spam rules needs to be changed and better defined for staff. Here is the rule for spam taken from the ECC rules Wiki Clause 1.1 - CAPS and Spam Bypassing our CAPS filter and/or typing in all caps is not allowed. Spam is not allowed. Repetitive words, letters, symbols that aren’t used in their correct context, or many messages sent quickly are considered spam. - This is pretty vague in rearguards to being warned for typing nooooooooooooo (for example) and it being considered spam. This is how I see it IMO - So if I say *but but you told me you would give me a hand* does that fall under repetitive words or incorrect context? - In closing I would like to see the spam rule updated and clarified. And the only English part needs work as well. All others are fine for me. *Edit: needed minor rewording lol.*
The guidelines for staff are too vague, that's the source of the problem - I believe @kukelekuuk00 has the same/similar views on this.
But it is hard to get equal enforcement, which is (from my understanding) what people are pushing back on.
where's the boundary? spam rule: Spam is not allowed. Repetitive words, letters, symbols that aren’t used in their correct context, or many messages sent quickly are considered spam. do you warn for: spam or spaam or spaaam or spaaaam or spaaaaam... etc. There's rules, but they're open to interpretation by each individual, which shouldn't be the case.
I agree, there needs to be more specific boundaries that indicate when it is time to stop for an individual. I still do think that generally spam needs to be discouraged by our rules, for it is not really benefiting anybody.
spam - no spaam - no - possible typo unless ongoing (which is what normally happens when then starts and then the player usually says - my keyboard is sticking). spaaam - This is spam plain and simple and what we are all getting tired of seeing. How would all of you feel if every time a player is simply warned they are talked back to, argued with, and many of the "friends" also start pushing the rules? Most on this thread are unhappy about being warned for breaking the rules and feel they are too strictly enforced and want the moderators to relax. Would it not be awesome if players who troll and spam stop pushing the limits constantly and learn to relax themselves?
This is how it should be : Spam - no Spaam - no Spaaam - no Spaaaaaaaaaaammmm - yes Why? Cause 3 A's is not excessive.
Looking at your example: spaaaam - ? do you consider 4 a's excessive or does it really have to be 11 a's in your mind to be considered spam? or how about spaammm? is that excessive or acceptable? I really believe that if we can come to some kind of agreement of what is spam we may be able to clarify the rules and expectations for our moderators. So far, you feel that my idea of spam is way too restrictive. That is fine - I feel yours is way too lenient - especially since you kind of skipped about 7 or 8 letters
Look at it in the frame of normal site chat: A: Hey, how are you? B: Good, u? C: Spaaaam A: I'm fine! That's so much less disruptive then, say, forty characters of it, and not any more than just "spam".
This discussion will continue to be brought up until we have a black and white, absolutely no interpretation needed, definition of "spam", in all it's forms. It's not silly. It's progress in process
