If I want to voice my frustration in chat then I will voice my frustration in chat. And I will use the word "shit". Why? Because I want to. Now, I don't have to swear, no. It's not a requirement. But to me, that swear is the most appropriate thing I can say at moments like that. This is no problem with a lack of "decency" or self control. It's a thing where I want to express myself in the most situation-appropriate way. And I can't do that without saying "shit," "crap," or "damnit". Well, I can, but it wouldn't be the same as what I want to express. I know common decency. And your "girlfriend's father" example is correct. (sortof) Because you're setting first impressions in a real life social situation. Saying "that's bullshit" is the same thing as calling someone a liar or wrong, in fact, saying "you're wrong" would probably have the same effect. That's insulting, and is indecent for completely different reasons. In those situations you need a more subtle approach because otherwise you'd upset the other party, even when that other party doesn't mind swearing in itself. But if I'm in a place with a bunch of people of my age, yeah, I'm definitely going to say "that's bullshit" when someone spouts bullshit. Because people of my generation in my country would do the same to me. Being straightforward and blunt like that is what's respected here. Given you're actually explaining why something is bullshit. I might even do it with people of an older generation, given I have a decent enough grasp of their personality. It's a different culture with different values. Enforcing your own culture's values over other cultures' values is silly. Don't do that. The current rules are a good compromise. EVERYONE is going to be exposed to swearing, one way or another. Because it's a common thing. People do it a elementary school, middle school, high school, college. If you want your children to understand when swearing is and is not appropriate then you have to TEACH them that. But you have to realize that swearing is A COMMON, FREQUENTLY DONE THING. By blocking it altogether you're alienating the part of the population that, for lack of better word, enjoys the occasional mild swear. Why? Because it enhances expressions. It lets me express my opinion accurately. And by banning it altogether you're alienating a lot of people. You'll have a server that's nothing but children and their parents, or people who don't chat. You'd have a truly family friendly server. A server most people would avoid. If I couldn't even express myself accurately any more, then I would simply quit. I'd say adios and would look for a community where I can have a regular conversation with my peers. Where I wouldn't be censored for tiny things like "shit". Where I can use mild swears without a problem. I don't need to be able to spam swears. I just want to be able to use the word "shit" in an appropriate context. Is that too much to ask?
The thing is, you don't need to use swears. There is thousands of words in the English language, yet you choose to use a word that is not socially acceptable. And your last statement, for want of a better word, is silly. Why would you quit because you can't swear? It shows you are unable to use decent English and that you just can't be bothered to find a better word to use. Also, don't give me the "swearing's the best way to express myself" rubbish, because it's not. There is better, more polite ways to express yourself. I believe there is nicer ways to go about it. Nothing against you kuke, I'm just trying to put my point across and I accept your opinion
You don't always get to do what you want You don't have to say anything at all, Sometimes we don't always want to hear what you/people are thinking? So you wouldnt swear just because of first impressions? What if it was the third or forth time you met him? I'd still think you'd be polite and considerate of his feelings? You dont think people deserve that same decency on minecraft? If not why not? I hope you read my comment from before cause i still don't think you understand, I know everyone is going to be exposed to swearing, i'm pretty sure i got that from your capitalisation of the word EVERYONE.... But like i said previously, parents aren't trying to hide the words from their children, its the fact that there is no need to use any of the vulgar language that is typed in global daily. You can think before you type something in and we don't have to read and know players frustrations and feelings all the time. Think before you press enter... It may be acceptable in your country, but I thought you of everyone would understand other peoples cultures and the fact that you cant do everything you think is acceptable in your country everywhere else... If you think that then well, I might as well talk the brick wall next to me
You're absolutely correct. I don't need to use swears. And I probably can't be bothered to find different words? But This is where you're wrong. It's not socially accepted in SOME PARTS OF THE WORLD. Not all. Not even close to all. This is why I'm advocating NOT CHANGING THINGS AT ALL. If anything, we, the staff team, needs to come to a consensus on what is, and is not, a warn-able thing. I would quit if I couldn't express myself using the word "shit", because it would mean the server has degraded to the point where I can't express myself without insulting anyone. Now, because I realize there are cultures where swearing is frowned upon I will refrain from using words like "f**k" or "c**t". Because I realize those are words with a.. heavier impact on users in those cultures. Likewise, I think it's more than decent to be a bit more in the other way around. I'm decent enough not to use the really bad words, and the others can be decent enough to allow me to express myself with "shit" And don't bring the "you don't HAVE TO use swears" bs up, because it's the same as saying I don't have to say anything at all. I don't HAVE TO express myself. It's not even an argument, it's just stating that it's not a requirement to use specific words. But just because it's not a requirement doesn't mean I am not compelled to use those words to convey what I mean. And likewise, forcing your own values in your culture on other cultures is just not cool. That's why I'm saying the current rules are fine. Because it's a compromise. Anyway, I've said my thing, and I realize I can't convince any of you. But, I know this isn't going to change, because this discussion has been going on for 4 years and nothing happened.
It's not too much to ask. Swear to the people who don't mind it as it's been suggested in this topic about equaling out the rule that swearing is allowed in /msg or such. Not everyone on this server wants to hear the string of trash coming from your mouth and there are a lot of kids here that you would be influencing in a bad way. You say it is our job to teach our children wrong from right and when it is appropriate to swear, but you fail to see that it is not appropriate on a game server where 80% of the members are children. This just reteaches the children that it's ok to swear on here and then, as children do, they will push the boundaries and try it other places. You might be an adult, but not everyone on here is. You say you 'want' to... well we can't always do what we want. I would like to rob a bank or even physically hurt some idiots that I deal with daily, but I show some self restraint as it is not appropriate. We all get and understand swearing is a common thing and everyone does it, but there is a time and place for it and global chat around children is not it! The point that a few of us have been trying to get across is that it's about respect. We are not asking for people who swear to be burned at the stake. I say a swear word just about every other word, but I respect this server and it's members enough to not bring it down with trashy swearing.
The rules allow me to say "shit" every once in a while. I know about respect, and it's out of respect that I'm not saying "F**k" and "shit" every other sentence. But if I can't even express myself that one time, with that one word, then there's no respect for people like me either. Respect goes both ways. And like you said, you can't always do what you want. But you can't always get what you want either.
You still miss the point. It is just not appropriate to say those things here as the crowd of users here are underage. You can't even be considerate enough to censor your words... the rule does talk about censorship being allowed and the occasional slip ups. Not coming on and swearing to express yourself cause you want to swear.
I doubt it will, your completely correct, With people who say they will quit because they cant use a swear word, I can see why nothing goes anywhere. Especially when they are meant to also be the ones helping the community and the members in it. I too have voiced my opinions, and its down to what culture this server wants to follow. I want some clarity, thats not too much to ask. Cause I know that some Staff Members are happy to let lots go in chat, while other Staff Members are getting to be made out to look like the bad guys because their 'moderators discretion' isn't as tolerant to bad language as others. And thats making it hard for them to actually do their job.
"If anything, we, the staff team, needs to come to a consensus on what is, and is not, a warn-able thing."
" Its down to what culture this server wants to follow. I want some clarity, thats not too much to ask."
4 years to define a grey area down to a line? hmmm Not going to weigh in with my opinion, but the wishy-washy definition needs work. I pretty much figured that "family-friendly" means if you wouldn't hear it on Sesame Street or in an elementary school (up to age 12?) from a teacher, then you should see it in chat... ever. I'm not saying that ECC should or should not be "family-friendly". However, at the moment, it ain't Sesame Street level
Swearing's natural. People wanna swear. There are some people that can say the word 'bullshit' in front of their girlfriends parents and they would in fact understand their frustration or they wouldn't be so struck about what he said. Swearing's apart of the English language, an if that's not natural enough, I have a friend who has a younger brother that knows more than him. And when I mean 'more', I mean words and disturbing acts (couldn't think of the word. It's nine in the morning and I'm used to waking up at 12). There are a lot more people that curse than you may think. When you see them in public, do you see them letting their mouth go? No. When you don't see them, do they say whatever they feel like? You may not know, but if they can, then they will. To a lot of people, cursing is just second nature. That same friend I mentioned above - he was sheltered (as in he didn't understand what was so wrong about putting a camera in the boy's bathroom to catch who was peeing on the floor) and he curses somewhat often. So fact is, a lot of people don't mind cursing. If you really cannot stand cursing, then I would say you should deal with it, but that's a little rude now is it? If you really REALLY cannot stand cursing, then there should be that command mentioned in earlier posts that can filter cursing out of the chat in the single person's perspective. And the spawn should remind the person of that command when they first join the server, so they can be happy either way.
Fully agree with everything kuke has said so far. Respect is a mutual thing. Us players who are okay with swearing limit what we say around those who are not okay with it. Now the respect needs to come the other way. The arguments I have seen on this thread coming from those who don't like swearing have been awful. You are all going on the same point that you don't respect it due to how you want your children to be, your culture, etc. Sure, I'm perfectly fine with your moral values but it is not at all necessary to throw your beliefs upon someone who does not agree with your ways. The fact of the matter is that we are a community and we all come from different backgrounds. Why not respect everyone's beliefs and keep the rule as it is now? Warn players who swear too much and let an odd slip up occur.
I have less respect for those who swear, the thing I don't get is why you feel the need to do it. The thing is, we shouldn't have to put up with swearing, if the server truly is family friendly. I don't understand why you can't find another way to say what you want to say.
You could always say "crap", that's tolerated for the most part. Anyway, my opinion is that the F and S bombs should not be tolerated, but replacement words should be as long as they are not directed at users.
Let's just throw out the bases here: swearing is everywhere. That's the age of the Internet, music, and society is in. But as for the swearing rule on ECC, I personally don't think it should be changed. No, I'm not an advocate of swearing, but with the rule that is in place, it makes a pretty fair boundary: slip-ups are a warning, but repeated offenses are bannable. However, those "slip-ups" and such should be defined further than "slip-ups". Was it really an accident?, Was it out of context?, etc. To be make a comparison, let's draw a bit thicker line over what we have than build a wall.
I don't understand why you would, it's a game setting with people you don't know (for the most part, lots of people have connections and I understand that. In a way, that's a different circumstance). Because ECC is a global server, you have people with thousands of different backgrounds, some with accepted swearing and some with not. I wouldn't look down on someone because they grew up accepting swearing, and use it frequently. I don't know the inside of them, their circumstances...etc. How is "family-friendly" defined? It's very open-ended, hence the discussion here over swearing. What's acceptable for one might not be acceptable for someone else.
As kuke has said previously, which of these would better express frustration... "Shit" or "Bummer"? Don't even say Bummer would because you're wrong. 95% of things that claim they are family friendly are not truly family friendly, by definition. If ECC became the definition of family friendly, you can take out half our player base. I, for one, wouldn't be able to tolerate not having the ability to carry on a normal conversation with a few friends. What makes ECC great is our ability to accept any player no matter their opinion on certain topics. You cannot accept the fact that in this generation, and many other generations before ours, it is okay to swear in certain cultures. We respect your opinion on swearing. Why can't you respect ours?
I think it's pretty silly that you would seriously consider quitting because you can't swear. I think it would be fine for PM but not global. It's not that I don't accept your opinion, it's that I don't agree with it. anyway, I've said and many others have said what I think, about this so I'll leave it up to the higher ups to decide
