Minecraft Name: GeorgiaMC Suggestion: Revert back to 1.8 pvp when KitPVP comes out. I would suggest making the main server 1.8 pvp too, but I'm assuming that won't happen as not supposed to be pvp based, so I'll just stick to suggesting this for KitPVP as of right now. Reason: The majority of players I've spoken to, prefer 1.8 pvp, so I believe more people will play if it's set onto old pvp, and as far as I know, most KitPVP/PVP minigame servers use 1.8 PVP. And now that KitPVP is going to replace SG (https://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/suggestion-revamp-sg.175119/) I think it's a good time to suggest this. I think it would be good to release KitPVP with 1.8 pvp already added. Instead of risking new players coming on to play KitPVP, and leaving because it's 1.9, without knowing it will be added in the future. Other Information:https://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/1-8-pvp.173929/#post-969875 Link To This Plugin/Is this a custom addition?: I'm guessing this would be done with a plugin rather than a custom addition: https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/1-8-pvp-for-1-9-1-10-and-1-11.19291/ (I don't know much about plugins so I'm hoping that's the right type xP)
I don't think it's impossible, otherwise, Jamie and Andrew wouldn't have previously said to suggest it again in the future. But I'm sure it won't be easy to do.
Back in early to mid 2016, when we had a far larger playerbase, there were various polls/suggestions made on the topic (here and here). What was the response? Near unanimous consensus against returning to 1.9 PvP. Except we really wouldn't be risking new players - the vast majority of sizable PvP servers operate with 1.9 PvP. Sure, you could name a few niche servers with 1.8 PvP, but they're quite small and dying - there's only one significantly sizable server that's worth mentioning that's still on 1.8. Said plugin is rather poorly reviewed due to memory leaks. The remaining 1.8 PvP servers usually just stick with requiring a 1.8 client rather than trying to make it compatible with later versions - an option that's been ruled out. And even if we do decide that we're capable of making our 1.9 PvP server compatible with later versions, I'd very much rather have said developer resources go to making new minigames than trying to support a dying/outdated version that few play on.
I've never seen that thread before, also that was 2 years ago when it was just released, and I probably would have voted to stick to new pvp back then as it was something new and exciting, but now I've played it a bit I really don't like it, and from when I've been talking to people about it, it seems to be a popular opinion. So I don't think we can judge a suggestion now on a poll that was taken 2 years ago, hence why I created a new one; which so far it seems to be about 50/50. Yea, like I said, I don't know too much about plugins, but I'm sure there's one that works out there or one that could be edited in some way to where it works/fits the server. And of course, it's completely out of the question to revert the entire sever back to version 1.8 just for the PVP aspect. The main reason I dislike the new 1.9 pvp, is because of bow spamming. You can basically shoot a fully powered bow in the same amount of time as the attack cooldowns last, which is stupid. It 100% takes less skill, seeing as with 1.8 pvp, you used to be able to strafe to avoid hit as much, and it was overall a lot more fast-paced, and you had to have good reaction times to everything. As of right now, it feels just so painfully slow. Like all you can do really is stand there and hit once every 2 seconds, and that's if the other person isn't spamming the hell out of their bow, so not really much skill involved... Obviously one of the downsides to reverting to 1.8 pvp mechanics is that it's easier for people to hack, but the anti-cheat has been updated a lot since then, so I'm sure this wouldn't be much of a problem. And as for the quite common argument that people who hate the new PVP are just bad at it. I can PVP in both 1.8 and 1.9+, and I'm not too bad at it either.
Realistically we can't use this one, either. What current ECC players want isn't a good sample of the MC community as a whole.
True, so I've gone and had a look at some other random polls I found regarding 1.8 vs 1.9 PVP, and here's what I found: ('Other' was just options such as "I don't care") Overall, it just seems there's a fairly even split from what I've seen. (And ik 1000 votes still isn't a large sample size in comparison to everyone playing MC, but nonetheless, it's a broader range that we'll get here.) Eh, this doesn't seem too feasible and just seems like too much work. Like I'm sure whatever PVP version gets picked, people who would have preferred the other one, for the most part, will still play on their least preferred version.
The polling/feedback wasn't exactly when 1.9 was brand new - by then it was a month and 4 months old; plenty of time to try out 1.9 servers. The reason why I cited it, as noted above, is because we actually had a larger playerbase that'd be far more representative of popular opinion back then - we had 100 and 150 peaks at those times respectively, 2 to 3 times as much as we have now.. Right, and that really isn't what's done. The largest 1.8 PvP server (which peaks at 2.5k players) still requires you to use a 1.8 client to connect, as do most other smaller 1.8 PvP servers. And as noted above, such servers are dying, with that 2.5k server more or less holding a total monopoly on the market. (which also begs the question - why should a small niche server like ECC try to enter and compete with a dying market that's already monopolized?) You're very much correct that a 1k vote count isn't exactly representative of the total MC playerbase. So what is? Voting by feet! And as I've noted in this (and many times in the post above, too) the largest servers are all on 1.9 PvP - while the largest server on 1.8 PvP has only 2.5k players, and the rest of the servers that try to emulate this are more or less dead (far lower playercounts than ECC, and we're on the small-ish side of such servers!). Want numbers about the 1.9 servers? 5 of these large servers collectively represent a peak of 72.5k-ish right now, with PvP (namely SG and Skywars) dominating as the most played games - all on 1.9! Include Bedrock edition servers, which are growing and mostly consist of former Java edition players who got the game for free and you'll get a collective peak of 90k-ish. Meanwhile, the most generous estimate I could probably give to 1.8 servers is like 3k players total (And falling!). So regardless of what a poll says, clearly the players who vote with their feet (you know the players who actually join servers, something we want) almost unanimously favor 1.9 PvP.
It would be great if both could be implemented, like some other PvP servers. I'm not too particularly fussy about which PvP version is picked if there can only be one, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. If they choose 1.8, rip my 5 cps. If it's 1.9, I'm bad at that anyways (however @Ozzyblack21 is significantly worse somehow)
Ive commented on these posts before. Backwards compatibility is so janky and difficult to do right, and even then its still not the same. Considering i know Jamie wouldn’t consider this, the only other option would be to have the server 1.8 only. Now how would this hinder the network? It would mean players wouldnt be able to swap servers with ease. Sure, he could attempt to play with forwards compatibility, however that is even more of a messy situation. Players would have to restart their minecraft clients and change version when wanting to swap from Kits to Main, and vice versa. How would this affect the new playerbase? In reality it would put alot of players off of a network. They would encounter the version swapping issue and wouldnt remain playing, as they could just go play on a larger server which has reverse compatibility. This being said, I don’t disagree with backwards compatibility, it just won’t be done correctly as we aren’t running full time devs on this shit. What about a 1.12.2 server with a modified combat system? I’ve personally worked with this, and can tell you first hand it doesn’t work. Sure, you can modify hit timers and revert the golden apple changes, yet damage values are very difficult to work with, and the amount of tweaking to try and reach some sort of playable solution isn’t worth the effort. Again, a 1.12.2 server is good. 1.8 kit servers are 6 of every dozen servers, however a 1.12.2 kits server is somewhat more of an uncommon experience. This fits fairly well into ECC, as main is a relatively niche market also. Edit: just noticed even the votes say 1.9. Also forgot to mention that although hacked clients (cough) are still present, they’re much more difficult to tackle as a legitimate player on 1.8, while on 1.9 its nowhere near as bad. Tl;dr This won’t happen. Get used to it.
Main server will not change to 1.8 PvP as it is not a PvP server. Once we release KitPvP, feel free to make a suggestion regarding it if you wish to make changes. I will be marking this suggestion denied simply because KitPvP does not currently exist, thus we cannot give a firm answer. We will hold everything that was posted in this thread under advisement though during the creation of KitPvP. Once again, when KitPvP is live, feel free to make suggestions based on what you see.
